Quality gaming - a bomb full of double standards?
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Comments
| mfnick
17 Feb : 14:25 ![]() | I dont really have anything to say apart from good article mate. Made for an interesting read. I'd just like to say (even though it was a smallish part of the article) as a gamer of nearly 20 years I think games are better than ever. Bollocks to the vocal, mardy communities. |
| Vectra
18 Feb : 12:17 ![]() | I think this gen has some great games although I am not sure how many of them could be regarded as classics in the future. |
| Dirtyrat
18 Feb : 17:11 | I hardly ever look back, and when I do I'm usually disappointed. Gaming is better than ever in my opinion, even old school 2D shooters are better these days. |
| unapersson
18 Feb : 22:09 Reply to this | I do really believe we've got it better than ever before at the moment, but I still think that some early games offered a promise that has never been quite realised as gaming went in a slightly different direction. For instance RPG games. I haven't genuinely enjoyed one fully since Alternate Reality: The City on the Atari 800. It was clunky with lots of disk swapping, really pushing at the limits of the machine, but extra power since hasn't really lead to an improvement in RPG games. More and more are going down the route of having branching trigger points for quests and cinematics, the original open world promise where you could make your own way and define the story has never really been realised. They always seem to bogged down with being the hero who saves the world from evil. There always has to be a plot, you can't ever define a game through your actions. AR:The City started with your character being kidnapped by a spaceship, dropped into a different world you know nothing about, where survival was the initial challenge. It ain't anywhere near perfect, but it's one that fired my imagination as to what an RPG could be. I'm still waiting |
| Dirtyrat
19 Feb : 12:12 | The problem is most gamers want a solid plot and direction, otherwise they flounder and get bored. Sounds like an MMO might fulfill your requirements better than a single player RPG. |
| Mjarr
19 Feb : 14:20 ![]() | Personally I find this holding-hands gameplay design bit silly. It does work in some pipeline shooters or so, but once in a while when there's a game that requires some more thought than shoot all bad guys it seems to get flushed down the nanosecond it happens. Bad directions or poor instructions is one thing (unless it's cleverly by design), but seems like some remnants of puzzle or adventure games are only ones to retain the generic idea of independent thought rather than guiding through the game. |
| unapersson
19 Feb : 14:20 Reply to this | No way, I can't stand the idea of MMOs, just glorified chat rooms as far as I'm concerned And I don't mean no plot at all, just not a single plot for everyone, ideally the plot should be driven by your actions and not be predetermined beforehand. I'm just hoping that at some point more of a machines resources will be dedicated to using intelligent agents and procedural generation of game elements rather than just upping the resolution of the graphics.I know I'm on a hiding to nothing with this one, it just ain't going to happen as its not an easy problem to solve, so I just make the most of what there is. I should try and code up a tech demo myself at some point. |
| Dirtyrat
19 Feb : 15:12 | It's impossible to make a game where the player decides the story, everything has to be written, coded and scripted to happen...I think you're looking way in the future when AI is actually good enough to interact with in a believable way...but that could be centuries off! I think Stalker is a game where you can kind of make your own story. Exploring the game world in that, particularly with the oblivion lost mod has a really unique feel to it, and because the enemies behave quite realistically it's very immersive. |
| unapersson
19 Feb : 15:53 Reply to this | It doesn't have to be that good. A lot of AI type stuff is dumb in the implementation, it just needs to look smarter than it actually is. For instance create a knowledge based system with 1000 plot fragments in it. Then have a relatively dumb AI filter which plot elements could be brought into play at any one time and chain them together as the player and NPC characters move through the world. Most AI stuff is similar to stage magicians, the end result might look impressive but doesn't seem so clever once you find out how its done. |
| Dirtyrat
19 Feb : 16:55 | I guess if you kept it VERY basic graphically, it could be done, but since there would be no real time to invest in making 1000 different "prizes" or "endings" for 1000 different potential outcomes for example, not to mention all the art assets, writing and coding required for the multitude of different routes you may take, i think it's all going to feel quite artificial. E.g. take the old Ian livingston RPG books as an example...where you make a decision and then go to the corresponding page to continue the story. That could have many outcomes, but it took a lot of time to write it well...transfer the same idea into games and it becomes very complex...so to make it work you have to make it basic, and I'm not sure that would appeal to many people. Interesting idea though I could only see that working in very basic games, and I don't think that would interest me. |
| Dirtyrat
19 Feb : 18:05 | I just played the Mount & Blade demo, and I think this could be the kind of game you are after actually. I am defo going to pick it up if it's on sale again. |
| unapersson
19 Feb : 20:24 Reply to this | I wrote a game based on the same principle of the Iain Livingstone books for my GCSE computer studies project. I remember that keeping a grip on the narrative tree was the most difficult bit, but the fight bits were easy. But hey, if the problems you're tackling are too easy then what's the point of them I'll have to check out Mount & Blade again. It works on Linux under Wine and I think I tried one of the beta releases. |
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